March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
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Re: March 20th 2020
That's my point. Smash TV is more like doom than doom 2016 and doom eternalAria Genisi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:32 pmserious sam is way way less doom and more akin to something like contra, ikari warriors, or smash tv but in first person
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Re: March 20th 2020
That's probably a bridge too far but Serious Sam's level design, despite being linear like doom 4's, still has secrets that feel more like doom secrets. In doom 4 and 5 it's "here's a corridor and a collectable" while sam gives you helpful items, health and armor and stuff.
Collectables as a thing to find in secrets is completely the opposite of doom game design.
Collectables as a thing to find in secrets is completely the opposite of doom game design.
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Re: March 20th 2020
I know it sounds like I'm hyper-focusing on one aspect but that's how my brain works, I can't really explain my entire point in one post, expect more posts later about how doom 4 and 5 are not doom level design
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Re: March 20th 2020
Serious Sam has more exploration than nuDoom and more nonlinear segments despite considering its linear nature to be a feature of their games. This is less true of Doom 4 though, since it did have some more doomish level design, but 5 is even more linear, with keys being placed not far from doors so there's no backtracking at all. Serious Sam uses backtracking quite a lot, filling previously used level space with new monsters and stuff, which was a common sight in doom level design as well (especially in the better fan wads) but Doom 5 seems to hate the concept of backtracking for any purpose. Lots of times, finding a key will lead you straight to the door using a new route to get to the door you saw previously.
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Re: March 20th 2020
that's a pretty nuclear take, imo
like, i don't agree with it at all that the new doom games are less doom just because it hides less actual powerups in secrets, instead hiding more collectibles (figurines, music records, lore, cheat codes) and progression items (runes, suit tokens, optional fights w/weapon point rewards, power up crystals), and that the level progression is more linear. I'm sorry you don't enjoy them, and don't like the design choices they've got. But they're extremely doom games, and even if they aren't 100% just like the classic games, they absolutely feel like the proper progression of those games into something more modern, without missing a beat.
like, i don't agree with it at all that the new doom games are less doom just because it hides less actual powerups in secrets, instead hiding more collectibles (figurines, music records, lore, cheat codes) and progression items (runes, suit tokens, optional fights w/weapon point rewards, power up crystals), and that the level progression is more linear. I'm sorry you don't enjoy them, and don't like the design choices they've got. But they're extremely doom games, and even if they aren't 100% just like the classic games, they absolutely feel like the proper progression of those games into something more modern, without missing a beat.
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Re: March 20th 2020
sorry genisi this is the final conflict, we will duel until the world's ending in DWANGO5
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Re: March 20th 2020
no that would be like doing map1 only, but then also you'd only be allowed to use the pistol
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Re: March 20th 2020
pistol deathmatch is not something I would wish on anyone, even genisi, my current archenemy
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
(I still can't believe you called it a nuclear take like I was defending nazis or something >.>)
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
all my takes are nuclear takes, for i am a kaiju
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
my take on all this is that doom has been reinventing itself since 3 tried its hand at horror and that's fine, but it won't work for everyone and that's also fine
i gave up on eternal because i find the game too hectic for my taste, i was never good at shooters and the more mechanics i have to pay attention to while playing them, the more the chance i'll become overwhelmed by it
so i tend to gravitate toward shooters that have simple but good core combat
i gave up on eternal because i find the game too hectic for my taste, i was never good at shooters and the more mechanics i have to pay attention to while playing them, the more the chance i'll become overwhelmed by it
so i tend to gravitate toward shooters that have simple but good core combat
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
and I should mention that my perspective on this is as someone who enjoys playing doom just as well with the -nomonsters flag on, so the level design is much much more important than it'd be for someone who is mostly there for the combat, like it sounds like Genisi is.
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
Secrets in classic doom come in 3 flavors: 1. Health/armor pickups 2. Early weapon pickups/extra weapons for pistol start 3. extra content. Usually it'll be a mixture of the three, but doom 2016 etc don't have category 3 which is the category I like best and that's why nudoom doesn't interest me at all. You never find a secret and find an entirely new fight, a new, cool-looking area, or that sorta thing. Every secret in nudoom is "here's an item in a mostly nondescript area"
yes I do always go for 100% secrets on first playthrough why do you ask
yes I do always go for 100% secrets on first playthrough why do you ask
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
And that's honestly the main reason that I, as someone for whom "doom" means "exploration and secrets" considers serious sam to be more of a doom game: it's full of category 3. Some secrets in serious sam are literally just spawners for extra fights, and I think that's great.
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
also nudoom goes so heavy into the gore and combat that it feels like it was inspired by brutal doom instead of regular doom.
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
Like doom has some pretty gross death animations like the mancubus, but you don't reach in and grab things eyes and rip them out.
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
I'm sorry for making a million posts I just like hexen okay, hexen is my favorite doom engine game!!!
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
by the way animal crossing is really fun, everyone.
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
nah, maybe some shred of a shared idea, but the new dooms and brutal doom go into entirely different directionsGloomy Rube wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:14 pmalso nudoom goes so heavy into the gore and combat that it feels like it was inspired by brutal doom instead of regular doom.
brutal doom is frankly very....juvenile in how it approaches the gore, where goes all in on the gore and brutality of it, regardless of how fucked up it is, to the point where (i'm just going on hearsay for this) it uses actual dead bodies and shit as the references to it's violence and gore. brutal doom is also it's own fucked up can of worms on top of all that (the guy who made it is a chud), but i digress
meanwhile, doom 2016 and doom eternal, while they do lean in on the gore, they do actually restrain themselves here. they aimed to go for a more slapstick approach to the gore and the violence, more like something like Evil Dead 2, where yes, it's violent, yes, it's gory, but it's trying more to be satisfying and fun, instead of just being cruel and gross. this video kinda helps better illustrate my point:
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
i have yet to play that tomb raider game because i've seen gampley of it a bunch of years ago and yeah
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
I should note I don't play brutal doom for obvious reasons so I didn't know those things so thanks for the info Genisi!
... but I feel even more correct in not playing brutal doom now that you have explained the difference, whew
... but I feel even more correct in not playing brutal doom now that you have explained the difference, whew
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
This -was- true and isn't -currently- true, though, from what I know. But the dev was complaining a lot about people getting upset about it so your point still standsAria Genisi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:37 pm(i'm just going on hearsay for this) it uses actual dead bodies and shit as the references to it's violence and gore.
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
The point is nudoom is so not for me because I can't even watch someone play doom eternal without having to look away.
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
so I guess another reason it bugs me is because it's another doom game that I can't really play. Like I only got through half of doom 2016 because of the gore before I uninstalled it so it's like "here's a game people say is fun but YOU can't play it because you don't like GORE AND SWEARING"
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Re: March 20th 2020 (Doom/Animal Crossing shitposting itt)
Anyway I feel a lot better having worked through all this and managing to actually say all the different things that bug me, so thanks a lot for helping me out, Genisi