The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Tolerance!

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Aurora » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:37 pm

I think sexuality doesn't really matter when it comes to recognizing someone as cute/handsome/attractive.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Vulin (?) » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:52 pm

Reading through all of this makes it look awful to be a homosexual in America. Sure, meeting close minded and homophobic teenager is nothing special, but that the whole thing seems to be a big issue on a politcal level is just ridiculous.
Just the fact that in some states same-sex marriage is not permitted is completely absurd in the land of "freedom" and "limitless opportunities". I have a hard time believing that there actually are adult people who think that something like that could be a sin. The only people here in Germany that I know believe that are the same people whose family trees are more like circles anyway.

This all makes it even more incredible that some of you were brave enough to face all of this, just to stay true to yourselves, so rock on! :yay:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Octavia (?) » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:00 pm

I've never been more disappointed in my country as I was the day Prop 8 passed. California has the reputation of being the most hyper-liberal state in the union, full of hippies and Hollywood hacks. But when put to a private ballot, it seems that more people in California are bigots after all, and voted to ban gay marriage via Prop 8. The worst part about it was everyone I knew was too excited about Obama being elected to care about Prop 8 passing.

I'm not in California anymore, but I'm still not in a state that allows gay marriage. Illinois has civil unions with equal rights as marriage, but it's still not the same. :fluttersmith:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Shotgunbadger (?) » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:02 pm

Octavia wrote:I've never been more disappointed in my country as I was the day Prop 8 passed. California has the reputation of being the most hyper-liberal state in the union, full of hippies and Hollywood hacks. But when put to a private ballot, it seems that more people in California are bigots after all, and voted to ban gay marriage via Prop 8. The worst part about it was everyone I knew was too excited about Obama being elected to care about Prop 8 passing.

I'm not in California anymore, but I'm still not in a state that allows gay marriage. Illinois has civil unions with equal rights as marriage, but it's still not the same. :fluttersmith:
California fucking sucks past the coastline.
Pinkemon wrote:I've never really been sure what I am, now that I think of it.

In real life I've never really had the urge to go out and hook up with someone, though at the same time I kinda like seeing pictures of both cute guys AND girls online when people tend to have "Post cute fictional/celebrity girls/guys" threads.
Heh. Probably some silly hormonal thing mixed with social awkwardness, isn't it? :modesty:
See this is why I'm such a fan of QUILTBAG as our movement name, it includes both Questioning and Unsure, all are welcome in these kinda topics.

Vulin wrote:Reading through all of this makes it look awful to be a homosexual in America. Sure, meeting close minded and homophobic teenager is nothing special, but that the whole thing seems to be a big issue on a politcal level is just ridiculous.
Just the fact that in some states same-sex marriage is not permitted is completely absurd in the land of "freedom" and "limitless opportunities". I have a hard time believing that there actually are adult people who think that something like that could be a sin. The only people here in Germany that I know believe that are the same people whose family trees are more like circles anyway.

This all makes it even more incredible that some of you were brave enough to face all of this, just to stay true to yourselves, so rock on! :yay:
There are far worse places in the world to be gay, I would never dream of comparing the bigotry I face to, say, Uganda where 'should we murder gays' is a legit topic of debate or the like. That said, yea, America blows for gays in the sphere of first world nations, even in progressive states arcane adoption standards and the like put gays lower on the list than 'normal' couples and such. Still, things are changing, slowly, that's why we fight. For a long time the bigots have controlled the dialogue and only recently have we wrenched it away, and really if you wanna get super detailed our own movement has major issues. GLAAD and such is dominated by white, wealthy, males, meaning issues like, say, homeless gay teens and all get shuffled away by many big names, and don't even get me started on how we gays throw transpeople under the bus every chance we get, and then get angry when they go 'uh ok, fuck you guys then?'

Still, civil rights don't happen over night, we have to get our house in order and do a lot of work, but people are beginning to finally start listening to us.

CapacitorPlague

Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by CapacitorPlague » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:05 pm

Concerned Reader wrote:Sorry for the text dump.
Wow.

Do not be sorry for that. It warmed my heart to read how your parents learned how to deal with their own feelings about your brother coming out. And if/when you do, I'm sure they'll be alright. :yay:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Pink Himalayan Salt » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:10 pm

shotgunbadger wrote:See this is why I'm such a fan of QUILTBAG as our movement name, it includes both Questioning and Unsure, all are welcome in these kinda topics.
What does it stand for? Some of the letters I get, but not all.

Also I talked to a friend online about my situation. I was nervous as fuck and couldn't figure out how to phrase. Eventually I just went the direct way and said "I think I'm bi." She was really supportive and revealed to me that she is bisexual, something I hadn't known despite knowing her since high school. I'm starting to feel a bit more comfortable calling myself bisexual.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Super Karoru » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:15 pm

Pink Himalayan Salt wrote:What does it stand for? Some of the letters I get, but not all.
Questioning, Unsure/Undecided, Intersex, Lesbian, Transgender/Transexual, Bisexual, Asexual, Gay/Genderqueer. :spike101:

Lazy

Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Lazy » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:21 pm

QUILTBAG is nice not only because it's more inclusive than LGBT, but it's just much easier to say.
...also LGBT makes me think of sandwiches. Lettuce, Gay Bacon and Tomatoes, delicious.
Also, belated hoorays for Maryland passing a gay marriage bill two days ago when this thread wasn't around! :pinkietoot: That's 8 outta 50.
Apparently it goes into effect in January 2013.
(also Newt Gingrich wants gay marriage banned on a federal level but no one cares about the race to see who loses to Obama that he isn't even doing well in anymore.)
Last edited by Lazy on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Octavia (?) » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:22 pm

That's why I just used the term "gender and sexual minorities" in the thread title. I didn't want some giant acronym where I might forget someone.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Flippity Flop » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:57 pm

Lazy wrote:...also LGBT makes me think of sandwiches. Lettuce, Gay Bacon and Tomatoes, delicious.
Mmmmm gay bacon!

Anyway, I'm lesbian and I came out to my parents in late 2010. Thankfully they're fully accepting and awesome. :pinkietoot: Basically, I thought about coming out until I freaked myself out, then just told my mom that I needed to talk to her. I sat down and just said, ''I'm not straight.'' Then she hugged me and told me that as long as I wasn't doing drugs or anything like that, she was fine. My dad had pretty much the same reaction.
I think my parents more than make up for the rest of my family, who would probably shut down if I said anything about my attraction to girls, but we also have quite a few family friends who are cool with it. :yay: On top of that I go to a weekly youth group tailored for Quiltbag youth. It has been informally renamed to Gaydies Night. :gotcha:

All of that said, I'm really glad that I've found a community in an otherwise unforgiving state (we have do deal with that dumb state legislator and her husband who constantly write to the local liberal newspaper about how GAY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYIN' TEH WURLD!1)

Pink Himalayan Salt

Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Pink Himalayan Salt » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:09 pm

Lazy wrote:Gay Bacon
:vomitpony:

How do you make something like that?

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Scuderia (?) » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:20 pm


Pineapple

Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Pineapple » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:03 pm

shotgunbadger wrote:For a long time the bigots have controlled the dialogue and only recently have we wrenched it away, and really if you wanna get super detailed our own movement has major issues. GLAAD and such is dominated by white, wealthy, males, meaning issues like, say, homeless gay teens and all get shuffled away by many big names, and don't even get me started on how we gays throw transpeople under the bus every chance we get, and then get angry when they go 'uh ok, fuck you guys then?'
That's a major reason I prefer to support organizations like HRC, who investigate and codify health care discrimination against trans individuals, and GLSEN's Safe Space Project. I think gay organizations that discriminate against other parts of the QUILTBAG upset me even more than "Family" based hate groups.
Concerned Reader wrote: Sorry for the text dump. I'll go over it again after work and try to reply to any questions or comments. Possibly during work too, depending on how the day goes. And feel free to PM me if you have any questions or anything like that.
Don't apologize, that was a great read and I thank you for sharing it with us.
Last edited by Pineapple on Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Shotgunbadger (?) » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:19 pm

I really don't like being 'that guy' but if you want to support HRC (which, don't get me wrong, you should) I'd urge you to donate your time/effort rather than money, they have a very rough track of spending a ton of money on 'administrative' which usually winds up as paychecks and fancy dinners to go 'we rule'. HRC is great, but just trying to make sure people get the most bang for their effort.

The Safe Space project, however, is amazing and you should give them money time and effort all at once.

Pineapple

Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Pineapple » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:23 pm

shotgunbadger wrote:I really don't like being 'that guy' but if you want to support HRC (which, don't get me wrong, you should) I'd urge you to donate your time/effort rather than money, they have a very rough track of spending a ton of money on 'administrative' which usually winds up as paychecks and fancy dinners to go 'we rule'. HRC is great, but just trying to make sure people get the most bang for their effort.

The Safe Space project, however, is amazing and you should give them money time and effort all at once.
I mostly just sign HRC's petitions. When I get my tax return I'm planning on sending safe space kits to several local schools.

Bobinator

Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Bobinator » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:54 pm

Hey, am I late on this? Hope I haven't completely missed everything. :V Bah.

...So, yeah. I'm gay. At least, I'm pretty sure I am. If I had to make an estimate, 90% gay. But anyway, yeah. I've never really told any family, and that's not something I want to really let slip if I can help it. Because I'm in, y'know, Alabama. Yeah, yeah, I know. I'd move if I could. Truth be told, I'd pretty much never bring it up if this topic didn't exist, since I'm pretty much terrified to bring it up any other time. :V

Haven't really told my parents because, well, I honestly have no idea how they'd react. Which, in my opinion, is worse than knowing for sure whether they'd be for or against it.

...So, yeah, not sure what else to say other than I'm glad I'm not the only one around here who feels that way about things. It's kind of nice to be able to bring it up.

...God, I hope I don't sound whiny. :fluttersmith:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by concerned reader (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:11 am

Bobinator wrote:Hey, am I late on this? Hope I haven't completely missed everything. :V Bah.

...So, yeah. I'm gay. At least, I'm pretty sure I am. If I had to make an estimate, 90% gay. But anyway, yeah. I've never really told any family, and that's not something I want to really let slip if I can help it. Because I'm in, y'know, Alabama. Yeah, yeah, I know. I'd move if I could. Truth be told, I'd pretty much never bring it up if this topic didn't exist, since I'm pretty much terrified to bring it up any other time. :V

Haven't really told my parents because, well, I honestly have no idea how they'd react. Which, in my opinion, is worse than knowing for sure whether they'd be for or against it.

...So, yeah, not sure what else to say other than I'm glad I'm not the only one around here who feels that way about things. It's kind of nice to be able to bring it up.

...God, I hope I don't sound whiny. :fluttersmith:
Oh no not at all! This is exactly why the thread exists, so people can post about their problems and get advice. For a lot of us, there's this strong feeling that we're alone with our problems, but that simply isn't true. There are others out there like you, going through a lot of the same issues, and this is as good a place as any to get support.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Doctor Wheeze (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:19 am

This isn't something I normally talk about. In fact, I haven't actually told anybody this outside the context of an anonymous online confessional thing. But this here is a safe space, and it was mentioned specifically, and you guys are all cool, right? So if I want to talk about it, this is a good place.

The best place to start is probably in middle school. There was a girl in my class, Kim. We were in band together, we both played the trumpet, and we would walk to class together after class. We got very friendly, and eventually I developed a crush on her. It was my first crush.

To date, it is also the only crush, infatuation, or attraction I have ever had. And in retrospect, it wasn't real.

I would force myself to think about her, or if I saw her I might stare a little, because I knew that those were the sorts of things I was supposed to be thinking and doing. It was never a natural thing. It was more like, "I have a crush on this girl, so I must do these sorts of things," rather than being a thing I did because I was attracted to her on some innate level. I think I knew this at the time too, but I was either deluding myself or just didn't know any better. It never really went anywhere.

Through high school, I had many very good friends, but no more crushes. At some point, I decided that I must be gay because I wasn't interested in women. So I stewed on that for a while, and in my sophomore year of college I started coming out to my friends. They were all very cool and it didn't really affect our relationships at all. I started attending meetings of Open Doors, our campus LGBT group, with a gay friend of mine.

After a while, I realized that wasn't really for me either. I stopped going to the meetings, and I started making excuses not to attend the dances (which I found unpleasant) and other events. I continued to think of myself as gay for a while. I would look at gay porn*, I would look at guys who I thought were cute, and I would occasionally talk about those sorts of things with my friends. All the while, I never actually developed any kind of romantic or sexual feelings for a man. Eventually, I just stopped thinking of myself as gay.

I kind of fluctuated on how I identified for a while, but it wasn't really something I thought about a lot. I've been out of college for a little less than a year now, and I feel that I have come to terms with this aspect of myself. I do not experience sexual attraction. I am asexual.

I think I'm fairly comfortable with that, but I do have a lot of anxiety about it. For one, I worry that I'm not really and I'm just making excuses for being a shy loser. I don't think that's the case, because I don't feel sexually frustrated. I'm not about to go post on Reddit about how women like jerks instead of nice guys like me, or whatever, but I do think that that's how people would probably perceive it if I did tell them about this, because sexuality is such an innate thing for most people. The way that some people assume that people who say they have asperger's syndrome are just making excuses. I also worry that people might think I'm emotionless, or incapable of empathy, or something like that. I don't think that's the case.

And then there's the awkwardness with my friends. Since I declared myself gay to them, it feels kind of weird to go back on that. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them didn't suspect, but still. Coming out as asexual is probably also not as important to my life and continued sanity as coming out as gay or bi or trans would be. For the sake of honesty I probably should, but it's hard :flutterdear:

There's probably more that I could write, but this is a wall of text already. It's a lot of words to say "I do not experience sexual attraction," but it felt nice to write it all down.

Sort of tangential, but I think this is sort of one of the things I find appealing about Ponies. So much of our fiction is so focused on sex, it's nice that there's a show where that's barely even a thing. There's Spike's crush on Rarity, which doesn't really come up that often, the thing with Prince Blueblood, and Hearts and Hooves Day, and that's about it. It's not that I don't like or don't understand romance in fiction, but even kids shows are full of it.

*It's probably worth noting had been looking at (and enjoying) pornography - both gay and straight - since my early teens. I don't think that really makes a difference in my conclusion, because that's not really related to real sexual attraction.
......:hatte:
:flutterunsmith:

Lazy

Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Lazy » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:32 am

Bobinator wrote:Hey, am I late on this? Hope I haven't completely missed everything. :V Bah.
You haven't missed anything, seeing this thread was made one day ago :iamapony:
Seeing as I live in a pretty liberal state, I'm not really in a position to give you specific advice on the situation you're in other than just hold it together. Being in the closet sucks, but you'll get your break one day.
If you don't have anywhere IRL you feel safe talking about this stuff, you might wanna see if you can find a LGBT/some form of ally group where you are. I mean, I can't say if that's an option for you right now, since going and doing something like that is kind of a personal decision, but it can really help to talk to people about it.
(And don't worry, you don't sound whiny in the slightest.)

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by concerned reader (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:38 am

Octavia wrote:
This is an excellent story and everyone here should read it.

I think you should tell your dad this. I bet he would really appreciate it. :3:
Yeah, I've only just recently started to realize how much I look up to him and value his opinions. It's about time I let him know.
CapacitorPlague wrote:Wow.

Do not be sorry for that. It warmed my heart to read how your parents learned how to deal with their own feelings about your brother coming out. And if/when you do, I'm sure they'll be alright. :yay:
Thanks!

Yeah, I think... I think I'll probably bring it up sooner, rather than later. It's something that's kinda been sitting with me for a while now, how I would fit my sexuality in with my faith, and really I think I trust my father's opinions on the matter more than I'd trust anyone else at this point.
Doctor Wheeze wrote:I kind of fluctuated on how I identified for a while, but it wasn't really something I thought about a lot. I've been out of college for a little less than a year now, and I feel that I have come to terms with this aspect of myself. I do not experience sexual attraction. I am asexual.
This is actually a lot more common than you'd think. I really don't have that much sexual attraction either. Like, I don't see a woman or man and think, "huh, I'd really like to sleep with that." Even when thinking about a relationship, sex usually takes a backseat to other lines of thought.
Doctor Wheeze wrote:And then there's the awkwardness with my friends. Since I declared myself gay to them, it feels kind of weird to go back on that. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them didn't suspect, but still. Coming out as asexual is probably also not as important to my life and continued sanity as coming out as gay or bi or trans would be. For the sake of honesty I probably should, but it's hard :flutterdear:
I would actually refute this immediately. Your sexuality is monumentally important to you sense of self identity. Asexuality is definitely a subset of sexuality, and coming out and letting them know that you've finally figured out who you are, well, it's very important. It's not that you're going back on being gay. It's more that you've matured enough to learn more about yourself.
Doctor Wheeze wrote:There's probably more that I could write, but this is a wall of text already. It's a lot of words to say "I do not experience sexual attraction," but it felt nice to write it all down.

I wrote 4 pages that could basically be distilled down into "I sorta like men and women, also my brother is gay and my parents are more or less okay with it." But being able to finally write it out long form, and explore/explain my entire thought process and personal journey on it made me feel so much better about myself afterwards. I think you should go for it, if you want to.
Doctor Wheeze wrote:*It's probably worth noting had been looking at (and enjoying) pornography - both gay and straight - since my early teens. I don't think that really makes a difference in my conclusion, because that's not really related to real sexual attraction.
Grabbing on this, because I was pretty much the same way. I made a small mention of it in my story, but to expound a little bit yeah. Porn is so far removed from what a real relationship is that it can't really be applied to sexuality and attraction too much.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Octavia (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:54 am

Thanks for your story, Doctor Wheeze. Asexuality is a lot harder for people to understand than being gay or bi. People will immediately assume you're gay if you don't have a partner of the opposite sex. If you tell them you're asexual, they'll just think you're making excuses. :-/
Doctor Wheeze wrote:Sort of tangential, but I think this is sort of one of the things I find appealing about Ponies. So much of our fiction is so focused on sex, it's nice that there's a show where that's barely even a thing. There's Spike's crush on Rarity, which doesn't really come up that often, the thing with Prince Blueblood, and Hearts and Hooves Day, and that's about it. It's not that I don't like or don't understand romance in fiction, but even kids shows are full of it.
One of the most aggravating things that ever happened to me with regards to a television show was on The Big Bang Theory. Despite its godawful laugh track, I enjoyed the first couple seasons of it because it had a lot of nerd humor. It also had a completely asexual character: Sheldon. It was relieving to have a nerdy character that wasn't desperately seeking a mate, whether it be in a heterosexual or homosexual relationship. He simply wasn't interested in sex at all. But after a few seasons, the writers decided to fuck everything up and give Sheldon an equally nerdy and socially awkward girlfriend. It completely ruined the show for me and I stopped watching like two episodes into the relationship. I haven't seen an episode since.

Oh, and speaking of QUILTBAGs on television, one of my favorite gay characters on television is Max from the show Happy Endings. He's not your typical super-flamboyant Jack from Will and Grace or Cam from Modern Family "TV gay." He's your typical sitcom overweight lazy slob, who just happens to be gay. He's a big cuddly sweetheart. :allears:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by concerned reader (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:58 am

Pineapple wrote: Don't apologize, that was a great read and I thank you for sharing it with us.
Oop, missed one. Thanks for reading it!

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Frosthawk (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:06 am

I have read every story in this thread and so much of it is very touching to read. I haven't ever had an experience that can come remotely close to a 'coming out' experience so I can only imagine what it must be like. But it sounds like a lot of you guys have a lot of strong support on your side, and for what little it's worth, this Dude On The Internet supports you also. I'm really glad that there's a topic like this and people are so comfortable with sharing their experiences.


One of my best friends is lesbian, which she didn't realize herself until about 2 years after I met her. She grew up in a strongly Christian environment - like, really hardcore Satan-Helped-Write-Harry-Potter flavor. I don't want to talk about it too much, since I feel weird discussing personal details of a friends' life even if she is anonymous, but let's just say her parents did not take too kindly to the news. Now they cope with her being a lesbian by not really believing she's a lesbian, but, rather, is just 'confused' and 'will grow out of it'. Frankly, I'm not sure they will ever come around. Basically, some people have a really shitty time with this.


This makes me feel pretty bad, since I know my parents (who are pretty typical Bostonian liberal atheists) wouldn't really have a problem with the fact that I was gay. That said, I've been kind of struggling with my sexual identity for years, and kind of still am. I think I'm probably a 2 on the Kinsey scale. Theoretically, if I truly love someone, their gender is irrelevant to me - and I really think this is true. And I can see attraction in both genders. But, for whatever reason, I can't see myself in an actual relationship with anyone but a woman.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Octavia (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:15 am

Frosthawk wrote:One of my best friends is lesbian, which she didn't realize herself until about 2 years after I met her. She grew up in a strongly Christian environment - like, really hardcore Satan-Helped-Write-Harry-Potter flavor. I don't want to talk about it too much, since I feel weird discussing personal details of a friends' life even if she is anonymous, but let's just say her parents did not take too kindly to the news. Now they cope with her being a lesbian by not really believing she's a lesbian, but, rather, is just 'confused' and 'will grow out of it'. Frankly, I'm not sure they will ever come around. Basically, some people have a really shitty time with this.
Friends can be a huge source of strength for those whose families aren't understanding. They could literally be the difference between life and death, so keep being a good friend!
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Shotgunbadger (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:27 am

Yea I can't stress enough to any straight readers or whatever who are all 'well this is all well and good but how can I help', be our friends. Even people with 100% supportive and healthy families can, at times, feel the weight of all the bigotry and oppression on them, and there is nothing more important than having a safety net. So I just wanna implore any straight readers who have a friend who came out to them and they're kinda all 'ok what do I do with this and how do I ask without looking stupid', most of the time when we go 'hey Bob, I'm gay' all we want is Bob to say 'oh, cool' and just play some more shitty video games like before.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Pineapple » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:37 am

Knowing someone is there for you is so important, even if it's just knowing they'll listen while you vent. If it weren't for the friends I had in high school, I probably wouldn't be here at all.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by concerned reader (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:10 am

I just got my first text from my brother about relationship stuff, and that makes me really happy that he trusts me enough to just treat it as something normal. (Because it is something that brothers should normally talk about, regardless of orientation.)

Lobst

Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Lobst » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:23 am

MtF transgender attracted mainly to dudes, here. I was successfully on hormone replacement therapy for several years until I ended up having to move back to my hometown in the rural Midwest; now I'm having to keep a low profile (detransitioning against my will, despite my medical/psychiatric history and legal female name) until I can get back to a coastal city where treatment is available this sort of thing isn't so heavily stigmatized.

It's awkward, uncomfortable, terribly isolating, and has thoroughly exacerbated this lifelong anxiety problem of mine. Even so, given the choice between this and living fully male, I'd choose this in a heartbeat.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Warp » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:57 am

^^I'm so, so sorry to hear that :fluttersmith: I hope you can go back to being the real you ASAP^^

Oh my, I didn't realize we had one of these threads! Wonderful! I've read this entire thread and it's nothing short of fantastic, reading all these stories :yay:

I suppose that means I should share my story, too.

I would be the T and the G in QUILTBAG (also I guess the L, too, depending on what you consider G to stand for!) I've been unsure of my gender identity for my entire life, up until oh...2 years ago I'd say. It has been a major, major source of depression for me (among other things, but I won't get into that here!)

Even when I was a little boy, I didn't feel right, and I just...didn't, or COULDN'T relate to any of the other kids, and the most frustrating part about the whole thing was not knowing WHY I couldn't seem to fit in no matter where I was. There just wasn't a connection there at all, especially with the other boys. I had a much stronger desire to make friends with the girls, for what are now very obvious reasons, but that wasn't something that the kids at my school generally did. The boys were friends with other boys, the girls were friends with other girls, and that's just how it was. And, when you combine an environment like that with my incredible shyness...well, needless to say I didn't have many friends of EITHER gender. I went through basically my entire life feeling just...wrong, and I even ended up having to be pulled out of school because my anxiety and depression got so bad. (Unfortunately this meant homeschool, which was the last thing I needed. Especially since it persisted through my highschool years, which did NOT help things.)

Fast forward to a few years ago, I'd say...oh...5 years? 2007 or so, that sounds right. To say I had been doing a lot of thinking would be like saying outer space is kind of big. I had finally thought I figured out the reason I felt so wrong all these years: I was gay! That MUST be it! I pondered the possibility for weeks before deciding that yes, yes I am gay. I came out to all my friends shortly thereafter (thankfully, despite my shyness, I had still managed to meet several people who I was able to form fairly deep relationships with), and they were all incredibly supportive, as was my mom (the only real family I have left. Thankfully she's incredibly liberal and open minded!) which was simply a euphoric feeling, to finally feel liberated and free to be myself, to finally be the person I've been meant to be all my life!

Except...something was still wrong. I still felt like an alien in my own skin. I still hated the person I saw when I looked in the mirror, like it wasn't me. And I was still depressed, actually probably more than I had ever been, to the point of legitimately being suicidal for a disturbingly long period of time. Imagine, thinking you found both the cause AND solution to something that had been eating away at your soul for your entire life, only to have it change nothing. It was absolutely crushing. It got to the point where I could not take it any more; and I was very, very close to actually attempting suicide. Thankfully, though, I didn't, and instead I did what I SHOULD have done years prior: started seeing a damn therapist. It was VERY difficult at first, opening up to someone about so many things that were so intimate and core to who I was, but I was able to work through a lot of things with him, and it put me in the state of mind to keep thinking about what it was that still felt wrong.

I had, before that, toyed with the idea that I might be a TG, but shoved it out of my mind, and never really seriously considered it. I'm not even sure why. But when I thought about it this time, and really, REALLY thought hard about how I view the concept of gender itself, the gears started to turn and it just kind of hit me one day: "Holy shit, I'm a girl."

I talked a lot about this with both my therapist and psychiatrist over the course of several weeks, and they both agreed with me 100%. It took far, far longer than it had any right to, and involved trying to get help from some very, VERY off putting people, but just a few weeks ago I was finally able to get started on HRT. When I got the bottles I just kind of sat in the waiting area of the pharmacy and stared at them for probably half an hour. I took my first dose that night and was just kind of in shock for the next few days. Right now though, even though there's some regrets that linger about not starting sooner, I can honestly say that I am the happiest I have ever been in my entire life. I have a wonderful group of friends who I've been able to transition around with no problems, and a boyfriend who is incredibly supportive of my decision. I'm still largely a boy to society at large, but I'm slowly making the transition into being in "girl mode" 100% of the time. Thankfully, living in Seattle makes it a lot easier than it would be in a LOT of other places.

Phew, well, that sure was a lot more :words: than I had anticipated. Regardless, I also just want to echo that things like this

shotgunbadger wrote:Yea I can't stress enough to any straight readers or whatever who are all 'well this is all well and good but how can I help', be our friends. Even people with 100% supportive and healthy families can, at times, feel the weight of all the bigotry and oppression on them, and there is nothing more important than having a safety net. So I just wanna implore any straight readers who have a friend who came out to them and they're kinda all 'ok what do I do with this and how do I ask without looking stupid', most of the time when we go 'hey Bob, I'm gay' all we want is Bob to say 'oh, cool' and just play some more shitty video games like before.
Octavia wrote:
Friends can be a huge source of strength for those whose families aren't understanding. They could literally be the difference between life and death, so keep being a good friend!
are 100% true. What is probably the most important thing you can do for someone is just be there as a good friend.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by londonarbuckle (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:11 am

Reading everyone's stories has been fascinating and touching and inspiring and heartbreaking all at the same time. Going through this process of discovering myself and what I like has been a struggle and I love being reminded that I am not alone and that all kinds of different identities are okay. It's really striking how much mainstream society/media suppresses these different identities or breaks them down to the simplest possible forms, and how difficult that can make it to figure out your own unique self, especially if you're like me and very un-self-confident and very suggestible. Seriously, you never hear a lot of this stuff unless you actually reach out to people about it and let them know them they aren't alone.

Anyway, I wonder if we could open up a conversation about the differences between physical attraction, romantic attraction, sexual drive and whether and to what degree those things all relate, because that concept really muddles things for me. I know they are different things but I've never really questioned how much or how little they truly relate to each other and how necessary they all are to a relationship or not. Because, like, before I seriously considered that I could be gay I wondered if I was actually asexual, and DoctorWheeze's post made me think about it all over again. I don't think I am, but to be honest I've never really had that many "crushes" in my life, and like I said I've never been in any relationship, but I'm not sure if this has just been because I've been suppressing my true feelings. And the idea that you can be asexual and still enjoy pornography had never really occurred to me before. But I think, like CR said, it's fairly common for some people to not have that active of a sex drive.

Okay maybe this is an entirely separate topic for a separate thread (or, ya know, a therapist) but I'm interested in what people's opinions are on this, especially in regards to sexual identity. Is it clear what I'm asking about? y/n

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by concerned reader (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:12 am

londonarbuckle wrote: Okay maybe this is an entirely separate topic for a separate thread (or, ya know, a therapist) but I'm interested in what people's opinions are on this, especially in regards to sexual identity. Is it clear what I'm asking about? y/n
Take the results you get from this with a grain of salt, but here's a fairly well done questionnaire: http://www.okcupid.com/tests/the-3-vari ... ctrum-test
You don't have to sign up for anything. Just print screen the results at the end. Here's what I got:
Image

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Vulin (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:28 am

I think I did it wrong. :pinkieshrug:
Image

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Jill (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:46 am

Pinkemon wrote:I've never really been sure what I am, now that I think of it.

In real life I've never really had the urge to go out and hook up with someone, though at the same time I kinda like seeing pictures of both cute guys AND girls online when people tend to have "Post cute fictional/celebrity girls/guys" threads.
Heh. Probably some silly hormonal thing mixed with social awkwardness, isn't it? :modesty:
I'm kind of the same way, but I've been so devoid of social interaction that I don't know what to think anymore. I figure I won't ever want to be in a relationship to begin with.

I'm a male in the technical sense, but I've never felt quite right about it. I don't have any basis for saying I'd be better off otherwise though, and there's no one I can talk to about it.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Shotgunbadger (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:52 am

Vulin wrote:I think I did it wrong. :pinkieshrug:
Image
Haha Vulin broke the test!

"Uuuuh I dunno...you're everything at once! Screw it!"

Yea the test is an interesting thought experiment but the people I roll with don't put much stock in it. Sexuality is a very, very, personal thing, so there's not really a formula you can plug in to go 'ah! I'm half gay! Wonderful!' That said it is a nice tool to show that sexuality is not binary "YOU EITHER GAY OR STRAIGHT PICK ONE!!!!" and I enjoy using it to demonstrate the concept of sexuality being fluid rather than binary.

Walkin Goon

Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Walkin Goon » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:15 am

Yeah.

Popped in real quick to take it twice, so here's my first and second result.

Image

I know it's an online quiz, but...what was I saying two posts ago? :wat:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by diribigal (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:18 pm

I just finished reading through everything in the thread (including the linked document), and I want to first thank everyone for sharing their perspectives/stories/what have you.
:allears:

I don't think I'm in a gender or sexual minority, but I try to be supportive when I can. On that note, I have a couple questions about things I'm not clear on.

1. How do people here feel about the Day of Silence?

For those unfamiliar with it, "The Day of Silence is a student-led national event that brings attention to anti-LGBT name-calling, bullying and harassment in schools. Students from middle school to college take some form of a vow of silence in an effort to encourage schools and classmates to address the problem of anti-LGBT behavior." The original idea is something along the lines of (my own words) "people who belong to many gender/sexual minorities often have to stay silent because of the culture we live in, once a year people can take a vow of silence to show support and draw attention to this". Usually the silence is accompanied with cards with explanations, maybe wristbands/buttons so you know the person you're talking to is taking a vow of silence, etc.

Now, when I first heard about the day of silence, I participated. Later on though, it seemed like it made supporters of these minorities look a bit silly; and the vow of silence basically strips anyone of the ability to explain their personal perspective on the day where support for these minorities gets the most attention. For these reasons, I'm not currently a big fan of the Day of Silence; it generates awareness, but not much productive discussion. However, I've been examining a lot of things more critically more recently, and I was wondering what people thought about my participation/lack thereof in this thing.

2. Does anyone have any good links explaining what asexuality is?

I just kind of assumed my guess was right, but then I read Doctor Wheeze's note about enjoying pornography, and I realized I must have something wrong. I figured that if someone enjoyed pornography, they couldn't be asexual, so now I'm a bit confused. I want to correct my definition, so if someone has a link and/or can explain it a bit, that would be really helpful.
ImageImageImage Very math.

Lazy

Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Lazy » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:53 pm

shotgunbadger wrote:Yea I can't stress enough to any straight readers or whatever who are all 'well this is all well and good but how can I help', be our friends. Even people with 100% supportive and healthy families can, at times, feel the weight of all the bigotry and oppression on them, and there is nothing more important than having a safety net. So I just wanna implore any straight readers who have a friend who came out to them and they're kinda all 'ok what do I do with this and how do I ask without looking stupid', most of the time when we go 'hey Bob, I'm gay' all we want is Bob to say 'oh, cool' and just play some more shitty video games like before.
Coming out while playing Halo, laughing about it and going back to hitting jeeps around with a giant hammer. S' how it should go.
Also, did that thing.
Image
Well, that's not anything I didn't already know. The questions of "have you dated/had sex with someone of the same sex" probably skewed it a little more towards hetero than it oughta be, considering I'm a 17 year old in a small MN town and school with nearly no other gay guys anywhere near me, but considering they're a dating site they probably aren't expecting too many people in that kinda situation using it.
diribigal wrote:1. How do people here feel about the Day of Silence?
On the one hand, I'm not sure exactly how effective it is-you can't tell people anything specific yourself while doing it because of how it works, so it relies on other people seeing you doing it and then going out to learn more about it themselves.
I think it may depend on where you live-where I am, I'm not going to get in trouble for explaining these things to people, and they often already understand at least the basic idea behind it, but in other places, people might not even be aware that things like this are an issue, and that's when having something like this seems most useful to me. You don't talk, show them a card or whatever explaining why so they can realize that this is a thing, and then later explain it to them in greater detail. Plus hopefully other related issues.
diribigal wrote:2. Does anyone have any good links explaining what asexuality is?
Well, this one is a decent explanation of both the definitions of the word and those definition's contradictions.
Honestly, Wikipedia'll probably also be helpful, at least for a general overview.
I think the thing to remember here is that sexuality/asexuality, long with heterosexuality/homosexuality is on a scale, not black and white. You can have a little sexual drive, or think that people/sex is still aesthetically pleasing without actually getting aroused by it.
Or possibly enjoy porn in a way other than sexually. I could imagine watching it simply to see something never normally present in life/media, or see something that's essentially one of the extremes of human emotion, or maybe even in a more clinical sense to try and get a feel for why other people do.
'Course, this is me speculating and going off what I already know about asexuality, so I don't know how accurate I can really be seeing as I'm not asexual myself. :pinkieshrug:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by londonarbuckle (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:13 pm

Here's what I got. I personally found these questions hard to answer, though. :pinkieshrug:

Image

I took it twice and answered some questions differently, but did not get significantly different results (slightly higher heterosexual, slightly lower asexual.) I don't know, I think I feel sexual attraction less than a lot of people but I still feel sexual desire pretty frequently, whatever that means.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Aramek (?) » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:37 pm

You scored 80 Heterosexuality, 19 Homosexuality, and 35 Asexuality!

You are either straight or bisexual (with an interest in the opposite gender) with a moderate to high sex drive.
The higher your score in heterosexuality, the more you are attracted to the opposite gender.
A higher asexuality score means that you place a bigger emphasis on the emotional aspects of a relationship and less on the physical.

I don't think I have a high sex drive, but, yeah, pretty much.
Image There was a link here, it's dead now and I'm sad.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Pineapple » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:50 pm

Lobst wrote:MtF transgender attracted mainly to dudes, here. I was successfully on hormone replacement therapy for several years until I ended up having to move back to my hometown in the rural Midwest; now I'm having to keep a low profile (detransitioning against my will, despite my medical/psychiatric history and legal female name) until I can get back to a coastal city where treatment is available this sort of thing isn't so heavily stigmatized.

It's awkward, uncomfortable, terribly isolating, and has thoroughly exacerbated this lifelong anxiety problem of mine. Even so, given the choice between this and living fully male, I'd choose this in a heartbeat.
D: That's so awful that I just want to kidnap you and bring you home with me to the east coast!
Grim wrote: I'm a male in the technical sense, but I've never felt quite right about it. I don't have any basis for saying I'd be better off otherwise though, and there's no one I can talk to about it.
There are several online resources for finding trans-friendly therapists who can help you explore what you're feeling. WPATH and GLMA maintain such lists, and I've heard of counselors who do online sessions for people who are out in the boonies without access to a sympathetic counselor.
diribigal wrote:1. How do people here feel about the Day of Silence?

2. Does anyone have any good links explaining what asexuality is?
1. I think it's a nice idea that doesn't really work out very well in practice, especially in schools that aren't sympathetic to begin with.

2. http://www.asexuality.org/home/overview.html It's not uncommon for people who identify as asexual to enjoy pornography and masturbation, but not feel any desire to seek out sex with someone else. I can sympathize, as I don't feel any particular need to pursue a partner. When I meet someone, that's cool. And if I don't, that's ok too.

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